Video of Trump Supporters Who Never Read Transcript
'This Calendar week' Transcript 2-13-22: Speaker Nancy Pelosi & Sen. Lindsey Graham
This is a rush transcript of "This Week" ambulation Sun, February 13.
A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sun, February thirteen, 2022 on ABC News is beneath. This copy may not be in its terminal form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.
ANNOUNCER: "This Week With George Stephanopoulos" starts correct now.
(Brainstorm VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC "THIS Calendar week" Anchor (voice-over): On the brink.
JAKE SULLIVAN, U.Southward. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Whatsoever American in Ukraine should leave equally soon as possible.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The U.Southward., allies and Russia all guild evacuation of embassies in Kyiv.
SULLIVAN: Our view, that military action could occur any 24-hour interval at present.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Biden and Putin speak in a final-ditch try to avoid war.
We embrace it all this morning was Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and primal Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, both "This Week" exclusives.
Plus: soaring aggrandizement.
UNIDENTIFIED Female: When yous go to the supermarket with $100, information technology doesn't go every bit far as it used to.
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): This state of affairs is real. Information technology's harming people.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What tin can be washed? How will it touch the midterms?
That and all the week's politics on our powerhouse roundtable.
And 50 years after Watergate, a alert for those involved in the January 6 attacks in a new memoir from one of President Nixon's close aides.
DWIGHT CHAPIN, FORMER AIDE TO PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON: Tell the truth, allow the fries fall where they may. You can always recover. I'1000 living proof that you tin recover.
(Stop VIDEOTAPE)
Journalist: From ABC News, it's "This Week."
Hither now, George Stephanopoulos.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Skillful morning, and welcome to "This Week."
The big question equally we come on the air, will Russia invade Ukraine this week? That's the warning right now from the White House. The U.South. and other Western nations are closing downwards their embassies in Kyiv, ordering personnel to exit the land, as more troops are sent to the region.
But diplomacy continues as well. President Biden held a ane-hour phone call with Vladimir Putin yesterday, warning an invasion would trigger swift and astringent costs. French President Macron also spoke with Putin. More than talks are scheduled for this week.
The crunch is fluid, confusing and tense.
Our coverage begins this forenoon with Terry Moran in Kyiv, Mary Bruce at the White Firm.
Good morning, Mary.
MARY BRUCE, ABC NEWS SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: George, good morning.
Well, the lesser line is that this phone telephone call between Vladimir Putin and President Biden did non produce much progress. After speaking for a footling over an hour, nosotros were told there was no fundamental change.
Biden over again stressed to Putin that invading Ukraine would pb to swift and severe costs to Russian federation. And he cautioned that there would be widespread homo suffering. Biden, we're told, too was direct with Putin about his concerns for the condom and security of Americans in Ukraine as well.
Now, the Kremlin this morning time says the U.South. is trying to create a sense of hysteria. But the White Business firm says that Russia's deportment speak louder than its words. And, right now, we are seeing that connected buildup along the border and a lack of de-escalation, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And, Mary, this is based on intelligence the White House has seen about a possible invasion this week?
BRUCE: It is.
And, George, wait, nosotros are told that the two teams agreed to continue to engage, but that does non hateful that at that place won't be military machine action past the Russians. Then, right now, the U.S. is standing down these two paths of diplomacy and deterrence. And they just say that they do not know if Putin has made up his mind whether to invade or not, but that he certainly could in the next few days, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Mary Bruce, thanks.
Let'due south go to Terry Moran in Kyiv.
And, Terry, there seems to be some cognitive noise betwixt what we're hearing from the White House, what you're seeing on the ground at that place in Kyiv.
TERRY MORAN, ABC NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL Correspondent: It's surreal, George.
In 1 sense, Ukraine is clearly a state on the knife'south border. Ukrainian forces are on high alert. Reservists are mobilized. The mayor of Kyiv has announced an evacuation plan for the city's three million citizens.
But life still feels normal here. People are all the same out and about terminal night, Saturday night. Lord's day traffic is light, lines at the airport a little scrap longer. Just at that place'southward no rush for the borders.
And function of the reason for that is that the Ukrainian authorities has taken a very different view and a very different tone, President Zelensky of Ukraine saying that all the warnings of a Russian invasion are only sowing the seeds of fear. He says the U.Due south. is creating a panic, which he called -- quote -- "the best friend of our enemies."
Meanwhile, the Russian military buildup continues, more boots on the ground around the state's borders, more than ships at sea off the declension. And now major airlines are because the possibility of suspending flights into Ukraine, the Dutch carrier KLM already deciding to stop flights here.
And a Portuguese flight today to Ukraine was redirected in mid-flight to Moldova because the company'due south insurer had decided that it would not wing into Ukraine anymore.
Only, as I said, the people hither just don't really believe it. It may exist wishful thinking. Terminal night, I was talking to a young man at a pub simply downwards the street here, and he said: No invasion. In that location will be no invasion. This is all just an information state of war -- George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Terry Moran, thanks very much.
We're joined now by the speaker of the Business firm, Nancy Pelosi.
Madam Speaker, thank you for coming in again this morning time.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): My pleasance. Practiced morning.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, we -- you just saw those reports correct there.
The White House is warning of an imminent invasion of Ukraine. The Ukrainians seem to think that that's all hype.
Are -- exercise you believe that Putin is poised to invade?
PELOSI: Well, I think we accept to be prepared for it. And that is what the president is -- yes, I do believe that he is prepared for an invasion.
I also understand why the President of Ukraine wants to go along people at-home and that he wants his economy not to suffer. But, on the other hand, if we were non threatening the sanctions and the rest, it would guarantee that Putin would invade. Allow's hope that diplomacy works.
It'south about diplomacy deterrence. Diplomacy deterrence. And the president's made it very articulate. There's a big price to pay for Russia to go in that location. Then if Russia doesn't invade, it's not that he never intended to. It's just that the sanctions worked.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you convinced that President Biden is doing everything he can to prevent an invasion? Is Congress doing everything you can to forbid an invasion?
PELOSI: Well, wait, I'g very proud of the work that the president has done. The unity of our allies and NATO to come to an understanding equally to the severity of the sanctions is very, very important. And that is -- that is something that Putin should pay very close attention to.
Actually, our allies in Europe can suffer sometimes from some of the sanctions considering of the touch it has on them and yet they are at that place fully on the sanctions front. Yes, nosotros in Congress -- the sanctions are the tactic the president is taking. He can do that by executive order. It would exist better if we could practise it --
STEPHANOPOULOS: What should President Putin know from yous, the Speaker of the Business firm, nigh the consequences of an invasion?
PELOSI: Well, the fact is, is that we call up that an set on on Ukraine is an assault on democracy. And that we are not -- we sympathize the loss of life, the damage, the collateral damage to civilians, to military machine, and the rest are astringent, if he decides to invade.
The mothers in Russian federation don't like their children going into state of war. He's (ph) had to experience that, forgive the expression, torso purse from the moms before. So he has to know that war is not an respond. There are very severe consequences to his aggression and that we are united in using them.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Permit'southward talk about the situation here at home. Families are feeling the hit from the highest aggrandizement in twoscore years. Right now it costs the average American family about $275 a month. What tin Congress do right now to bring those costs down?
PELOSI: Well, let me merely talk near the inflation then. Considering people are saying, well, what we're spending is causing -- the fact that people take jobs always contributes to increase in aggrandizement. That's a adept affair. But inflation is non a good -- y'all know, nosotros have to contain that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Wages are non keeping up with prices.
PELOSI: That's right. And let me only say most what Congress has been doing. When we did the COMPETES Act terminal -- what contributes to inflation? More people having jobs, scarcity of products, which makes the prices go upward, and the rest. So when nosotros passed the COMPETES Deed last Fri, this was a giant step forward. Now we take to get to conference with the Senate and we volition shortly. We'll transport it to the president's desk. But what that does is addresses the supply concatenation shortages that nosotros have, and therefore, will subtract inflation.
Secondly, information technology's important to annotation this virtually the BBB, the BBB is a deficit reduction neb. It's a neb that -- some people say when you increase the national debt, you increase inflation. Seventeen Nobel laureates wrote that the -- the way the BBB was written with long-term investments and increasing the capacity of people to participate in our success is noninflationary.
In addition to that, the tax -- the Joint Tax Committee, which is the imprimatur (ph) on all these problems, the Articulation Taxation Commission says that BBB will reduce the national debt by $100 billion in the first ten years and $one trillion in the 2nd 10 years. And then what we are doing is, what are the iii effects (ph)? More than people going to work. That'south a skillful thing. More product to lower the toll, you know, the supply side of -- the supply and more supply, lower costs.
Then third, and -- tertiary, the terms of not increasing the national debt.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But equally you know, Senator Manchin, who is the senator that matters right now considering he'south against it, disagrees. He said it'due south going to hurt inflation. Let's have a expect.
(Begin VIDEO Clip)
SENATOR JOE MANCHIN, (D-WV): This is not a time to be throwing more fuel on the fire. Nosotros have an inflate -- we have inflation and nosotros have, basically, an economic system that'south on burn. You don't throw more than fuel on the burn that is already on burn down causing the problems that nosotros have. So we've got to get our Business firm in social club.
(END VIDEO Prune)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Without his vote, this isn't going anywhere.
PELOSI: Well, the fact is, is that -- clearly, he has -- y'all know, look, Joe Manchin, as you lot said, is the senator who counts, every senator counts. And nosotros take legislation that is then transformative for our country.
When you see what President Biden has done in this yr, whether it'due south the rescue package that has put money in people's pockets, taking people off poverty, vaccines in their arms and the remainder, yous know that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, only people aren't feeling it right at present. They're upset.
(CROSSTALK)
PELOSI: No, I understand that. No, I understand that, but there has to be a cumulative effect, a cumulative upshot.
And part of the consequences of all of that investment, the infrastructure bill and the residual, is that more people have jobs and, therefore, aggrandizement goes up. When I outset went to Congress, you lot were there working for Dick Gephardt --
STEPHANOPOULOS: (INAUDIBLE) Dick Gephardt.
PELOSI: Aye. Nosotros get all the style dorsum. I went to my showtime meeting where the caput of the Fed came in to talk most inflation and unemployment. That was a requirement that the chairman reported to Congress on that. And the first thing Chairman Greenspan said was, unemployment is dangerously low.
Well, if you're just measuring it by aggrandizement. But the fact is, that the rise in employment and President Biden has nearly 7 one thousand thousand jobs in his year in office.
So, yes, we have inflation. It'south very important for u.s. to address it. We must bring it down.
And -- but is not -- it'southward non correct -- with all the respect in the world for my friend Joe Manchin -- information technology's not correct to say what we're doing is contributing to the inflation because information technology is exactly the opposite.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The other thing that is weighing --
PELOSI: Seventeen Nobel laureate, the Articulation Tax Committee.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The other thing that'south weighing on people correct at present is rising law-breaking. And there announced to be some divisions among Democrats near how to handle it. Your colleague Karen Bass, running for mayor of Los Angeles, trying to increase the police force in L.A.
PELOSI: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Cori Bush-league, congresswoman from Missouri, is proverb information technology's fourth dimension to defund the police. She'due south sticking by that.
You're the speaker, how do y'all recollect Democrats should accost rising crime?
PELOSI: Well, with all the respect in the globe for Cori Bush-league, that is non the position of the Democratic Party. Community safety, to protect and defend in every way, is our oath of role.
And I take sympathy -- I -- we're all concerned most mistreatment of people. And that's why Karen Bass had the Justice and Policing Act. And we would promise to become some of that washed, whether information technology'south no-knock, chokehold, or some of those issues, fifty-fifty if we can't get information technology all done.
But the -- but make no mistake, community prophylactic is our responsibility. And I told 1 my colleagues from New York, Ritchie Torres, make new member of Congress, fashion on the left, proverb that defund the police is dead. That causes a concern with a few in our caucus.
But public safety is our responsibility. And I back up what Karen Bass is doing and Mayor Adams of New York.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Inflation, the rising crime are both weighing downwards on President Biden's approval ratings. Right now, they're weighing downwards on Democrats as we caput into the midterms.
Y'all say you're going to run again this year. But 29 of your young man Democrats are not running for re-election.
How worried are you about the midterms right at present?
PELOSI: I -- I don't agonize. I organize. And nosotros are fully intent to win this election. Zippo less is at pale.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How about debunking history?
PELOSI: Well, forget history. Nosotros're talking nearly future, you know? And when people say, well, the history says that the presidents lose seats in the off twelvemonth. Presidents gain seat only (INAUDIBLE).
We didn't gain seats when President Biden won. We worked together to win the Senate, win the House, and win the White House. It was cumulative, but it wasn't an increase.
And i of the reasons that, in role, the president'southward party loses seats in the off years because they proceeds and then many in the on-year. We won 40 seats in 'eighteen, 31 in Trump districts. In this yr with Trump on the ballot, we lost a third of those Trump seats.
Withal, the people who survived in those Trump seats with Trump on the ballot are in very proficient shape.
We have nothing for granted. Nosotros intend -- by redistricting, which did non exercise united states harm, every bit people predicted, history and all that, by recruitment, groovy people coming forward believing that nosotros can win, with raising of money and attracting the back up, and almost raising interest in the volunteers. We take every intention every single 24-hour interval to do everything in our power. We have decided to win and that's what we volition practice.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Then, if you maintain control, are yous going to run for speaker again?
PELOSI: That'south not a question. My purpose right now is just to win that election. It's to win that election. Cipher less is at pale than the -- our republic.
But, very important in all that is what it means personally to the American people, to their kitchen table issues. Whether it's whether they're going to be able to pay for food, for medicine, for rent, children's instruction, and the residue. And so, our focus that unifies our Democrats -- yous talked well-nigh what may have divided a few of them. What unifies united states is the -- is the empathy that we accept for America's working families and the priority of meeting their needs.
Lower toll, bigger paychecks, lower taxes, all paid for past making everyone pay their fair share with a nifty president. I think his bulletin -- see, when nosotros won in '06 and '08, we were left to our own devices. Merely us kids. We didn't have a Democrat in the White House. Now nosotros practise. So fifty-fifty stronger in ability to win. And who is more empathetic than Joe Biden? Who has more -- a bigger vision, more than knowledge, more than strategic thinking most all this, more authenticity in associating with America's working families?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Madam speaker, thank you for your time this morn.
PELOSI: Yep. Onward to a bully Democratic victory (ph). Thank you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Lindsey Graham joining united states side by side.
And, later, equally the January 6th committee continues its investigation, a onetime Nixon aide who went to jail for the president shares his lessons learned from Watergate.
Nosotros'll exist right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) JUDICIARY COMMITTEE & (R) S CAROLINA: Trump and I, nosotros've had a hell of a journey. I hate it being this way. Oh, my God, I detest it. From my point of view, he's been a consequential president. Merely, today, beginning thing you lot'll see. All I can say is, count me out. Enough is enough.
(Stop VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Lindsey Graham on January 6, 2021. He joins us this morning from Jerusalem.
Senator Graham, thank you for joining united states this morning.
We'll get to the events of January sixth after.
But I do want to begin with the -- what the White House says is an imminent invasion of Ukraine by President Putin.
Are you convinced that Putin'south going to go in?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R) JUDICIARY Committee & (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: No, I'one thousand not, simply I'm convinced that we could do more in Congress and should. We've been working in a bipartisan fashion for near 3 weeks now to come up with pre-invasion, postal service-invasion sanctions, and the White House keeps pushing back.
And then, the best affair that could happen is for us to past this sanctions package, pre-invasion with a waiver, mail-invasions sanctions that would destroy the ruble and cripple the Russian economy and then Putin could run across it in writing. That might aid him decide not to invade
But we should be doing more than in Congress.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yeah, I'm surprised that you oasis't. I mean, as yous said, the negotiations have been stalled...
GRAHAM: Me, as well.
STEPHANOPOULOS: ... in the Senate. Yous're saying the president is pushing dorsum, but y'all too have some pushback from your Republican colleagues in the Senate?
GRAHAM: Yeah, only non in a real, meaningful fashion. At that place's 70 votes in the torso for invasion sanctions, pre-invasion sanctions with a waiver, post-invasion sanctions. The problem has been secondary sanctions.
It's non simply enough to sanction a Russian bank. Y'all want to sanction everyone that does concern with that bank. And we've actually got to exist difficult on Nord Stream 2 as a cash cow for Putin, and nosotros demand to have a robust set of sanctions regarding the SWIFT program so that Putin would sympathize that the human relationship with the United States would be forever changed.
And, finally, I want to brand that signal. This is non the last president America will have. If Russia invades the Ukraine, you lot volition destroy the U.Southward.-Russian relationship for decades. And every president in the near term will be put in a box when it comes to dealing with Russian federation. So I hope Putin understands that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What do you make of this overall strategy we're seeing from the administration, releasing this intelligence about possible invasions, maxim imminent invasions, saying maybe there will be a simulated flag operation? Do yous think that mayhap has been effective in pushing Putin back?
GRAHAM: I don't know. That's a really practiced question. I don't want to band an alert bell every bit much as take activity. They're telling the states the invasion is imminent. Just they're not telling Putin with clarity what happens if you lot invade.
He should be punished at present. What I can't get over is that the world is allowing him to do all this without consequence. The guy took the Crimea in 2014. He's got 100,000 troops amassed on the Ukrainian edge and he's paying no price at all. So I'd similar to hitting him now for the provocation and have sanctions spelled out very conspicuously, what happens to the ruble and his oil and gas economy. I think that's what'due south missing.
We're talking way besides much and we're doing as well piffling.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, let's see what happens this week.
Senator, in the meantime, I do want to ask you, it's been several years since yous've been on the programme. So this is our first take a chance since...
GRAHAM: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
STEPHANOPOULOS: ... the January 6th riots to ask nearly your human relationship with President Trump and his leadership with the Republican Political party.
GRAHAM: Yeah.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, we showed your comments from January 6th at the top. The adjacent day you lot talked about the president's accountability for allowing the riot to happen. Simply you've also said the Republican Party tin't win without him and the 2024 nomination is his for the taking.
So where exercise things stand with you and President Trump correct now? Do you support his improvement in 2024?
GRAHAM: So, number one, it's his nomination for the taking in 2024, if he wants. If he wants to exist the Republican nominee for the Republican Party, it'southward his for the taking. My floor comments were about the 2020 election. I am not contesting the 2020 election. I'd like to reform the system. The problems we institute in 2020 need to be addressed. But the 2020 ballot is over for me. Donald Trump is the near consequential Republican in the Republican Party today. He has a bully hazard of being president over again in 2024. If he'll beginning comparing what he did as president versus what'south going on now and how to fix the mess we -- we're in. If he looks backward, I remember he's hurting his chances.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, yous've -- y'all said that to Bob Woodward likewise. You said the president was going to have to modify if he wanted to exist competitive in 2024. He doesn't really prove any signs of changing. He continues to lie about the 2020 ballot. A couple weeks ago he talked about pardoning the Jan 6th rioters. He called you a RINO...
GRAHAM: Yeah.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Republican In Proper name Only...
(LAUGHTER)
... because yous disagreed with that. There'southward no evidence that the president's going to change.
GRAHAM: Well, hither'south my statement nearly the president'southward state of affairs right now. He's the most dominant figure in the Republican Party. I remember Biden'due south approval ratings are in the tank because his policies are not working. For the president to win in 2024, he'due south got to talk nigh the futurity. He's got to talk about how to gear up a broken edge, how to repair the damage washed through the Biden economic calendar and how to make the world a safer place.
I do believe, if he talked about what he's capable of doing and remind people what he did in the past, he has a take chances to come back. If he continues to talk nigh the 2020 election, I recollect it hurts his crusade and, quite frankly, it hurts the Republican Party.
STEPHANOPOULOS: He's planning to come to South Carolina and campaign for chief opponents of two of your members of Congress, Republican members of Congress, Nancy Mace and Tom Rice. Is that helpful?
GRAHAM: Well, again, it's upwards to him who he wants to campaign for. I'm not worried nearly u.s. taking dorsum the House. We're going to have back the House unless we really screw this affair up. What I'm looking for is that America First agenda, like we had a Contract With America. You remember 1994. What are nosotros for as a Republican Political party? How do we fix the issues created by the Biden assistants?
That's what I recollect is missing. We need a positive agenda to talk about how we tin can fix the time to come for America, repair the impairment, rather than trying to purge the party. I recall the best thing for the Republican Party is to talk well-nigh policy.
STEPHANOPOULOS: If you do take the Senate back, will you vote for Mitch McConnell as Senate Republican leader?
In the past, y'all have said that he's got to fix his relationship with President Trump if he's going to earn your vote.
GRAHAM: Yep.
Yes, I think any Republican leader in the Firm or the Senate has to have a working human relationship with President Trump, because most Republicans like President Trump'due south policies. A lot of united states wish he would wait forward, not astern. But he'south very popular because he stands up to all the things that almost Republicans believe demand to exist stood up to.
So Mitch McConnell, if he runs, or anyone else, I remember, would have to show a working relationship with the president. Here's the expert news for the Republican Party. We're back in the game, folks, after January the 6th, but it's mainly due to Democratic failures. We're going to take to testify to people we can do more than just talk near the by.
Nosotros have got to show to the people we tin push forrard a very positive future.
And I'm in Jerusalem for the Iranian nuclear discussions, are very concerning to the Israelis. And the world needs to tell Iran earlier it's too tardily, what are the red lines regarding their nuclear program? And if we don't give the Iranians ruby-red lines, nosotros could have a state of war on our hands pretty quickly between Israel and Iran.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to ask yous about one last event at home, the Supreme Courtroom.
President Biden has a vacancy he's trying to fill. Is Guess Michelle Childs of South Carolina the only Biden nominee you could support?
GRAHAM: I call back she's the i that would get the most Republican votes.
I would be very inclined back up her because of her groundwork. She didn't go to Harvard and Yale, which I think is a plus. She went to University of South Carolina. Simply we will wait and come across what President Biden does. But I accept told him and his team that if y'all nominate, Michelle Childs, she will be in the liberal army camp, for sure, only she has a hell of a story.
And she would be somebody, I call up, that could bring the Senate together and probably get more lx votes. Anyone else would be problematic.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Graham, thanks for your time this morning. Safe travels.
GRAHAM: Cheers.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Roundtable is up next.
We will exist right back.
(COMMERCIAL Intermission)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Roundtable is here and ready to become. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(Brainstorm VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D), NEW YORK: New Yorkers, this is what we're waiting for -- tremendous progress after 2 long years.
UNIDENTIFIED Male: With our numbers continue to drop and having the second highest vaccination rate in the country, nosotros can safely brand this shift.
UNIDENTIFIED Male person: At present is the advisable time for me to announce rescind the mask mandate, constructive immediately.
(END VIDEO Clip)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Governors across the land dropping mask mandates this calendar week ahead of the Biden administration.
We'll talk nigh that on our roundtable, joined by Chris Christie, Donald Brazile, Sara Isgur, a veteran of the Trump Justice Section and now an analyst for ABC News, and Patrick Gaspar, president and CEO of the Center for American Progress.
Welcome to you all.
Donna, let me begin with you. We saw those Autonomous governors. A lot of data get out this week alee of President Biden.
Are we in a decisive new phase of this pandemic?
BRAZILE: I think and so. We've seen 3 percent less deaths, 43 per centum less hospitalization. The cases are going downward.
Merely I think nosotros should always be cautious about COVID. This is a virus that has been unpredictable in the past. Nosotros saw it from beta to delta to omicron. God knows we don't want to get to omega or annihilation else in the Greek alphabet.
But I think the governors are doing it right. With public health officials proverb, look, it's -- it'southward decreasing. Maybe we should have steps to return to normal. But I -- I don't know what normal looks similar until it'south over.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You were a governor. Governors have been driving this change from the start.
CHRISTIE: Well, they accept been and they should be, because as nosotros know, dissimilar regions of the country have been impacted by this in different means and at different paces. And then at that place could exist a national overarching strategy near how you lot do things. Simply the execution of individual strategies has to exist washed by the governors.
Just let's be clear, the scientific discipline that drove what happened this week was political science. Okay? Phil Murphy decides to withdraw the mask mandate --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Governor of New Jersey.
CHRISTIE: -- in New Jersey, correct, because he had a near-death experience on Ballot Day in November.
And information technology's now come up public that they ran focus groups. That the Murphy administration in New Jersey ran focus groups mail the election to find out what was bothering people the most. Mask mandates was at the top of that listing. And, all all of a sudden, Phil Murphy, who's had the most severe lockdowns in -- in all u.s.a. in the country --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Merely circumstances have inverse.
CHRISTIE: But,, George, they oasis't changed that significantly on the footing yet in many places. And -- and what drove this was politics. They're seeing how unpopular information technology is and they're moving away from it. That's the nature of our system.
STEPHANOPOULOS: President Biden is staying cautious.
GASPARD: He'due south staying cautious because you have to at the national level. Any conversation about Covid should begin with the fact that over 900,000 Americans have perished from this disease. Huge, huge number and deepest respect, Governor, I concur with you that decisions take to be made on the state by state regional ground, but it's greatly contemptuous to say that Phil White potato fabricated this decision considering of politics. They've seen a 70 percentage reduction in Covid rates over the last vi weeks, a 70 percent reduction in new -- in new infections, right?
CHRISTIE: Later he did focus groups.
GASPARD: That's why they're making this decision. They followed the information very, very closely, and they -- they're -- they're marrying the data to economic consequences and consequences in educational activity as well. So they're following the trajectory of the science.
CHRISTIE: It's -- George, I -- you lot know, I don't desire (INAUDIBLE) your show, equally much as I might like to, only -- but it'southward simply non true. And when -- and when Governor Tater was --
GASPARD: Seventy percentage reduction in six weeks. That's -- that is a fact. That is a fact.
CHRISTIE: Excuse me, when Governor Tater was on national shows this calendar week and was asked why, sir, if the mask mandates should be lifted, why are you delaying it a calendar month? He had -- what's the scientific reason for delaying information technology a calendar month? He had no reply. You can go back and look at the tape. So, if he has scientific reason for doing it, he would requite that scientific reason. He doesn't take ane. Perchance he should hire Patrick to requite him the scientific reason.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, Sarah, the truth --
CHRISTIE: Simply he doesn't have one with the staff he has in Trenton.
STEPHANOPOULOS: In that location's always going to be some degree of uncertainty with the science.
ISGUR: I think that's true, just if it actually were based on science, then they would put out the numbers. One time we get hospitalizations below this rate, then the mask mandates will lift. Y'all haven't seen a unmarried governor give out the metrics that they will use in advance of them -- them using it. And the truth is that the only science that has changed, in my view, is actually around mask mandates in schools. Something we've known for quite a long fourth dimension but this isn't June 2020. I think every American is fine with what happened in June 2020. But nosotros now know that mask mandates in schools are doing zilch except learning loss. I mean imagine kids trying to understand, elementary school kids understanding what you're proverb without being able to read your lips, emotional loss of non existence able to read facial expressions. That's the science that we're going to find out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that'southward not the but science we have. And I think you lot're right about the science correct there. You also have science that the vaccinations worked, that the boosters work.
ISGUR: Yes, and when you lot await at polling, it gets pretty nuanced. Most Americans want everyone to be vaccinated. About Americans are fine with some mask mandates. But they as well at present are starting to understand the trade-offs of that, they're frustrated most the school learning loss, and they think that anybody's had the opportunity to get vaccinated. And if they're non going to, fine. Move on. And that's the political science when yous're heading into the midterms that Democrats, I think, know that they're looking at very frustrated Americans.
GASPARD: Oh, Sarah, Sarah, they -- Sarah, let's -- permit's exist clear, y'all're right that the polling is nuanced simply it's also changed about a dozen times in the last ten months or so. And nosotros all know that if there'southward another variant, if at that place's whatever sense that the numbers are slipping, that Americans are going to shift again on mask mandates and vaccinations. So let's not say quickly that they want to motility on from -- from -- from all of this and --
ISGUR: They do now. Things could change. Of course they could change. But correct at present.
GASPARD: At present. In the moment. Every bit the president of the The states, Joe Biden tin can't simply focus on the at present. He has to make certain that we're prepared for any variants (ph) that may come in the virtually future, on economics and on health science.
ISGUR: Then why did they send out the tests last year? Why didn't they send out masks last year? Why doesn't every American accept a stack of Northward-95s?
GASPARD: Nosotros -- we -- nosotros accept to -- we --
BRAZILE: But, you know what, they did do? They did -- they did -- they did send state and localities money.
GASPARD: They did, which every Republican voted confronting.
BRAZILE: And they also gave governors and others the right to effigy out how to use that money. I mean, I keep proverb, in D.C., our mayor, who is like our governor, she did the right thing, gratis testing, made certain that -- that test kits were available. And then, the fact that these states are at present looking at the scientific discipline and the information and they're saying, look, we have fewer hospitalizations, nosotros have fewer deaths, maybe it'due south fourth dimension to outset bringing it down a little bit. Only, once more, this is going to -- this is going to exist state by country, governor by governor. And nosotros're going to accept to figure out what the new examination metrics will be equally we lower these mandates.
CHRISTIE: And -- and I don't think we tin be -- I don't think we can be naive most the fact that there are 36 governor's races coming up in the adjacent seven or eight months.
GASPARD: That's correct.
CHRISTIE: And that at that place is a political element to this. And Sarah is right, that the American people are frustrated by this. They don't want to deal with this any longer. They do experience like the vaccines take now been bachelor for a long fourth dimension. And if certain Americans have decided non to exist vaccinated, that'due south their pick and they desire to move on, if they take been.
So, you know, the politics of this are -- always been an element of it. Not maybe in May or June of 2020, but certainly since that time, politics take been an element of information technology and we have to be enlightened of that.
BRAZILE: Yes, we weaponized it. We weaponized public health. Nosotros've weaponized, yous know, basic scientific discipline and then that people are afraid. The disinformation on the vaccines is notwithstanding running rampant in our communities across the state.
CHRISTIE: It's not running rampant, Donna.
BRAZILE: It is.
CHRISTIE: Yous take a -- yous take an overwhelming majority of the American people who are vaccinated. So if this information was working, the overwhelming majority of the American people who are vaccinated. So if this information was working, the overwhelming majority of people in this country would not be vaccinated.
BRAZILE: Well, then why are...
CHRISTIE: So...
BRAZILE: ... parents hesitant to get their kids...
CHRISTIE: So if you desire to focus on the minority of people who are maxim no, merely the fact is...
STEPHANOPOULOS: That grouping'south never going to change.
CHRISTIE: Simply that's my point, is like, that doesn't prove disinformation is working. Estimate what, in our order, finding any upshot where 85 pct or 90 percent of the American people concord with each other...
GASPARD: Governor -- Governor, allow'southward be articulate that this disinformation did piece of work until many employees in the individual sector and the public sector were forced to get vaccinated equally a consequence of some of these mandates. Then allow's not just say it didn't have any effect at all.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I desire to move on to inflation. Donna, you know, watching the Democrats, watching President Biden, first inflation was transitory; now information technology seems similar it's here to stay, at least for awhile. And it doesn't appear that Democrats have an answer beyond Build Back Ameliorate.
BRAZILE: First of all, aggrandizement is a global problem. And it's -- and it's likewise a problem that I think the president is rightfully addressing with the supply chain issue. He'due south also addressing it with every tool at his disposal to endeavor to piece of work with corporations to lower the prices of fuel at the gas pump and also to ensure nosotros take, you know, our food supplies in stock.
This is a global trouble that was exposed during the pandemic. And the fact is, I think the president is going to work extremely hard to attempt to get more than legislation on the books that volition effort to reduce some of these causes. Just we've got to -- there'south another bigger story hither. And that is the economy is doing well. Just aggrandizement is eating at all of us.
CHRISTIE: George, look, let's start with the gas pumps. If President Biden would put aside his environmental agenda for a moment, if he wants to deal with aggrandizement, I spoke to the governor of Northward Dakota two weeks ago. He is being forced by the Biden administration to keep 500,000 barrels of oil a 24-hour interval in the ground in North Dakota.
If those 500,000 barrels of oil a day were allowed to be produced, two things would happen. It would aid the price on gas. And, 2, we wouldn't have Joe Biden begging OPEC to increase.
Look, if yous're worried about global warming, you'd say "I want to go on the oil in the basis." Whether the oil comes out of the ground in Kingdom of saudi arabia or Due north Dakota, information technology has the same consequence on global warming. But Joe Biden doesn't want to do that inside America and he'due south beingness a hypocrite near information technology.
Permit North Dakota, let Pennsylvania, let Texas attain their quotas and take a greater supply. And I don't know, Donna, I took basic economics in college. Greater supply deals with this demand we take and will lower prices.
GASPARD: That is basic economics, Governor. Y'all're right almost that.
CHRISTIE: Information technology is.
GASPARD: And nosotros all know that inflation has been caused by the global economies shutting down all at once, reopening all at once. And the fact of the thing is, as Donnas said, that the U.Southward. economy is recovering at a far faster step than any other land in the OECD. That is -- that is an absolute fact.
On your -- your -- what you just said nigh oil, this is not a choice between inflation and climate and environmentalism. It just isn't. Strategic reserves have been released and steps have been taken to mitigate some of these costs.
And we also appreciate that there are some existent legitimate limitations to what the president of the United states of america and Congress tin do in this moment. Yet, they accept to think long-term in the future of bringing down costs. Donna is correct that some elements in BBB will certainly bring downwardly family unit care costs and pharmaceutical costs and energy costs, besides, and should be passed.
But allow's talk almost what Republicans are doing. The 2008 Trump taxation cutting, for case...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Xviii.
GASPARD: In 2018 -- incentivized corporations to move jobs overseas, to move industry overseas, in a mode that has blocked upwardly supplies hither in the U.Due south. now today, has contributed to the aggrandizement.
It's truthful, Governor. It's actually the example.
ISGUR: Nosotros're talking most inflation from this very big perspective. Gas prices matter. But, look, y'all want to talk about the politics of the midterm elections, the 2008 financial crisis, which was also a global miracle, was largely felt by men in the economy. I recollect, when we look dorsum at the fourth dimension in history, nosotros will see the Trump phenomenon actually being far more related to the 2008 financial crisis than anything else.
This pandemic is most labor shortages now. That's what's driving inflation, and that is being driven by women out of the piece of work strength, at this betoken, because of kid intendance issues, because schools are closing, open up, closing, open up, considering of inflation now, that they can't afford the groceries. That's what'south going to drive these midterm elections when we look back on it, is the labor shortages caused by women, caused by schools. And they're going to hold Democrats responsible for that.
GASPARD: Sarah is completely correct that the -- the circumstances for women in this economy absolutely driving some of the challenges that we have in the workforce. Democrats conspicuously have a solution around some of the care economic system proposals that Biden and...
ISGUR: They're non standing up to the teachers union. That's what would assistance a lot, is having -- women having regular education admission.
(CROSSTALK)
GASPARD: Sarah, that is...
(CROSSTALK)
GASPARD: That's pretty myopic. This has almost literally aught to exercise...
ISGUR: The caput of the teachers union is still saying mask mandates are necessary, that schoolhouse closures are necessary.
GASPARD: ... with the fight with the teachers union correct now. We have these -- we had these challenges around women and the economy and the care economy before the pandemic.
And there are...
ISGUR: Not nearly at this level.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: And there'south another nib on Capitol Hill, the American Competitive Act -- the speaker spoke to information technology earlier today -- that would also reduce prices and give Americans more relief.
The fact is, nosotros have got to start producing things at home. We have a supply chain trouble considering...
CHRISTIE: Well...
BRAZILE: ... equally Patrick mentioned, the 2018 Trump tax cuts, which incentivized people to offshore many of our products.
CHRISTIE: Donna, I listened to the speaker in your interview.
When a speaker is looking in the camera, and her bulletin for the American people this morning is, don't worry about it because 17 Nobel laureates agree with us, you lot know what they say? I went to the gas station and tried to get gas and, in the Northeast right now, it'southward $1 a gallon more than it was a year ago.
That'south what they sympathize.
ISGUR: Craven is $8.
(CROSSTALK)
CHRISTIE: So, that's what they empathise.
ISGUR: Can't get broccoli.
(CROSSTALK)
CHRISTIE: This is a political truism. When the economy and things are going well, the president gets undue credit.
GASPARD: Aye.
CHRISTIE: And when they're going poorly, he's got to take the responsibleness.
And when he'southward keeping oil in the ground in the U.s. and begging OPEC for more, that'due south bad policy.
GASPARD: Governor, it's too a political truism that you tin't beat something with nothing.
When nosotros get to November, Americans are going to be helped to understand that there is a comparative analysis here. Every Democrat voted for a stimulus package, voted for beingness able to get resources into the hands of Americans, so that, in 2021, the average American family unit had $340 more per month than they did before the pandemic in 'xx and 2019.
And that'south when you lot account for inflation equally well. Every unmarried Republican voted against those measures, every concluding one. That matters.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Sarah, that'southward the positive Autonomous message right at that place.
I think a lot of Democrats are as well hoping that President Trump stays in the fashion.
ISGUR: 2022, if it's a plebiscite on Joe Biden's economy, Joe Biden's calendar, Democrats are going to lose the Business firm and the Senate.
Withal, if Republicans keep talking nearly 2020, and the election being stolen, and thinking that Donald Trump -- these voters existed before Donald Trump. He is the consequence of these voters. He didn't create these voters. And so if they continue kowtowing to that, Republicans make it a referendum about themselves, I recall Patrick's exactly correct. They will non take dorsum the Senate.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Even Lindsey Graham had a alarm for the president there.
CHRISTIE: Well, he -- in Lindsey Graham's mode, he did.
(LAUGHTER)
GASPARD: Even while saluting him.
CHRISTIE: While fulsomely praising him, he did have a warning.
(LAUGHTER)
CHRISTIE: Only you need a Lindsey Graham translator, and to heed to it.
What Lindsey Graham was saying was exactly right, and what many of united states accept been proverb for a long time. Politicians, no matter who you are, Donald Trump or anybody else, who looks backwards are losers. The politicians who put frontwards a plan for the future and look frontwards are the ones who have a take chances to win.
And then Republicans take to decide, what do we desire to exist, losers or winners?
STEPHANOPOULOS: I have to ask you a question.
Practise y'all retrieve Donald Trump wants Republicans to win if he'due south non the head of the political party?
CHRISTIE: Oh, well, expect, I accept -- you're asking me to go inside that and effigy that out?
(LAUGHTER)
CHRISTIE: I don't know.
But I will tell you this, George.
GASPARD: Yes, yous do.
CHRISTIE: I recollect what he has shown...
GASPARD: Yes, you do, Governor.
(LAUGHTER)
CHRISTIE: I think what he has shown is, he has shown that what he cares virtually the most is himself and vindication for what he believes happened to him in 2020. He's wrong about that.
And that'south what he cares about the nearly. And when he's calling Mitch McConnell names and doing all this stuff that he's been doing, look, information technology'due south non helpful for the Republican Party.
(CROSSTALK)
ISGUR: Fascinating information now, when Donald Trump endorses a candidate, it really doesn't do much to help them.
When he attacks a candidate, it tin injure them in the primary, unquestionably. Just Republicans need to recollect about, what does that mean nigh these voters? And what does it mean about Donald Trump equally the leader of the party?
CHRISTIE: Right.
ISGUR: If his endorsement doesn't mean anything, these voters aren't following Donald Trump. It is something...
(CROSSTALK)
CHRISTIE: Look at what has happened to Brian Kemp in Georgia, OK?
The concluding poll that came out, Brian Kemp is chirapsia David Perdue by 7 points in Georgia. He's chirapsia Stacey Abrams by five points.
GASPARD: Yes. Yes.
CHRISTIE: Perdue, with the Trump endorsement, is behind Kemp in the primary and even with Stacey Abrams in a general poll. That tells you something about what the endorsement means.
BRAZILE: Merely, Chris, Governor, he's causing chaos.
Nosotros know what happens when you take -- when you have positions in a primary. He's causing anarchy and sectionalisation within the Republican Political party.
I think what the Republican Party needs to effigy out is whether or non they are going to be a party that stands for something or just stands for the sometime president. And that is a challenge, because what yous see in Washington is that people are afraid to footstep over that bright ruby-red line of challenging Trump.
And, therefore, what they're doing is...
ISGUR: Less than earlier. Pence. McConnell.
CHRISTIE: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That is going to have to be...
CHRISTIE: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That's the last word.
Give thanks you all very much.
Upwards next, 50 years since Watergate, and ane of the President Nixon's meridian aides on the lessons he learned, why they might be relevant today.
(COMMERCIAL Suspension)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC "THIS Week" Ballast: Dwight Chapin only 21 years old when he went to work for Richard Nixon in 1962, 34 when he went to prison for him -- convicted of lying to a k jury near Watergate.
In his new volume, "The President'southward Homo: The Memoir's of Nixon's Trusted Aide", Chapin details life inside the White House and the lessons he learned 50 years ago that are so relevant today.
Our political director Rick Klein spoke with him.
(Brainstorm VIDEOTAPE)
RICK KLEIN, ABC NEWS POLITICAL DIRECTOR (vocalism-over): Every bit special banana to the president, Dwight Chapin'due south job to anticipate Richard Nixon's every move. But not necessarily follow his command.
DWIGHT CHAPIN, Quondam AIDE TO PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON: I worked for him over such a long period of fourth dimension that it was almost 2d nature to me. I knew how he thought or what he -- how he would want a sure situation to unfold. And that became, really, my credential, if you will, because I was able to anticipate the exactly where he wanted to get and what he wanted to practice.
KLEIN: You said that often that people around Nixon were saving Nixon from Nixon. Haldeman'south words, right. What did that mean in practice?
CHAPIN: What it means is, that sometimes the president would ask that something be done and it was important not necessarily to follow through.
KLEIN: The White House aide was at Nixon'due south side for primal moments in history, including that historic beginning trip to Red china.
RICHARD NIXON, FORMER PRESIDENT: We have been hither a calendar week. This was the week that changed the world.
CHAPIN: The Communist china opening in 1972 needs to be remembered for what information technology was, which was the near dramatic, diplomatic trip in the history of any president. And its -- the consequences of it have been immense. And, of course, we're in the center of this now.
When Nixon went, information technology was a geopolitical affair where he was dealing with Russia on 1 side and Cathay on the other. It's kind of interesting to look at the Olympics that are near prepare to end and the fact that Putin and the China leader are there together and the U.s.a. is kind of missing from activeness in terms of whatsoever official what function and that'southward not what Nixon would have wanted.
RICK KLEIN, ABC NEWS POLITICAL DIRECTOR (voice over): Nixon's foreign policy accomplishments were eclipsed by the scandal that took downwardly his presidency, along with much of his inner circumvolve.
CHAPIN: I was a political football game. I ended upwardly in the wrong place at the incorrect time. The name of the game was not to get Dwight Chapin. The proper noun of the game was to bring down Richard Nixon.
KLEIN: The first to continue trial in connection with to the Watergate break in, Chapin writes that Nixon could be unsentimental in his use of people, just harbors no regrets nigh his years of loyal service.
KLEIN (on photographic camera): He was pardoned and information technology's never bothered you that he was function while you and others went to prison defending him?
CHAPIN: Information technology's never bothered me. And I would say that anyone that thinks virtually it, the fact that he had to resign and go out role put him through his own hell. That was his incarceration.
KLEIN (voice over): He sees parallels to today with the political scandal involving White House records, congressional and criminal probes, and aides caught in the heart.
KLEIN (on camera): There's so many people now, many of them equally immature as you were so, who are defenseless up in all of these investigations and they're being subpoenaed by congressional committees. Then many people in former President Trump's orbit are now caught up in this maustrum (ph) that seems like it's a never ending affair. What -- what practice you lot say to them?
CHAPIN: Bottom line, honesty. Tell the truth. Let the chips fall where they may. Y'all can e'er recover. I'm living proof that you can recover.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks to Rick Klein for that.
We'll be correct back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: That is all for us today. Thank you for sharing role of your Sunday with the states. Check out "Globe NEWS Tonight." And I'll encounter you lot tomorrow on "GMA."
(COMMERCIAL Break)
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